Comments on: News Analysis: SAP’s TomorrowNow Debacle Ends With Jury Award Of $1.3B To Oracle

By: R "Ray" Wang

R "Ray" Wang — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 08:34:41 +0000

Tim – Cobbler’s son has no shoes. I still don’t have a good collab suite =) – Ray

By: Tim

Tim — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 01:53:10 +0000

Ironically , SAP sells SAP GRC -Governance , Risk and Compliance

By: Will the SAP user groups re-ignite the maintenance topic? | Constellation Research

Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:43:26 +0000

[...] Ray Wang thinks (in summary) [...]

By: Will the SAP user groups re-ignite the maintenance topic? | ZDNet

Will the SAP user groups re-ignite the maintenance topic? | ZDNet — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:27:10 +0000

[...] Ray Wang thinks (in summary) [...]

By: R "Ray" Wang

R "Ray" Wang — Fri, 26 Nov 2010 07:00:42 +0000

Bjoern – thanks! It’s time to keep the field even let’s see what we can do to reeducate the customers so that they aren’t caught off guard. Cheers – Ray

By: Bjoern

Bjoern — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:00:34 +0000

Ray, Gordon,

yes, you are right – this saga is about ip theft, but it´s a fact:
If you go for 3PM, than the price point is not the only thing you have to think about, it´s also the perception of the market and the customers therein. Very often these are people that do not think abouth these topics as much as we probably do. Up to now, the price of 3PM was the major topic. Only after the case between RiminiS treet and Oracle is finished, we will have certainty on how this works.

Second: Yes, the customers do have the power of the market, but they do not use it due to the fact, that they have not understood, that the sellers market is over. It will need some time to change this beahviour.

But I am ready for this fight – even though I am a software vendor.

Bjoern

By: R "Ray" Wang

R "Ray" Wang — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 03:10:04 +0000

Gordon – agreed. this is about IP Theft and SAP fell right into Oracle’s hands. – Ray

By: Gordon

Gordon — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 03:02:40 +0000

The whole saga is nothing to do with 3rd party maintenance .If I feel Toyota workshop is expensive , I could also visit any automobile workshop in town.

I believe the main purpose of SAP to acquire Tommorrow Now was knowing they could access secured Oracle website for competative information . It was an evil intention from the very begining . There is not relate to any competition in 3rd party maintenance support. In fact , there is no true business value to acquire TN at the first place .

However , Oracle was more cunning that the plain SAP. Oracle must have logged all the download and evil acts by SAP . As a result , SAP had to openly admit the committed crime.

At the end , the Cowboy( Oracle , US) is more cunning that the Mechanic ( SAP , Germany)

By: R "Ray" Wang

R "Ray" Wang — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:13:26 +0000

Mike – let’s do it! – Ray

By: Mike Simons

Mike Simons — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:06:18 +0000

Here are my thoughts – we don’t want hidden trade wars under the guise of legal battles between European and US software giantss. Remember Microsoft versus the EU?
We do want some maturity from Enterprise IT company leaders and we want them to focus on delivering innovation and value for their customers.
All that is worth fighting for – http://ht.ly/3f1Yx

By: Mike Simons

Mike Simons — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 16:09:25 +0000

Ray, always ready for a fight. Looking forward to it. The software bill of rights should be nailed to the wall of every CIOs office.

By: R "Ray" Wang

R "Ray" Wang — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:31:35 +0000

Mike – Thanks for the comment. So long clients demand for 3PM at the time of purchase, we still have an opportunity to push back on vendors. If we fail to do that and seek clarification at time of purchase, then we may have pushed the balance of power too far on the side of the software vendor. Ready to fight this battle on behalf of customers? I am. – Ray

By: R "Ray" Wang

R "Ray" Wang — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:30:03 +0000

Bjoern – Good points. However, 3PM is and should be a right. If we as consumers allow software vendors to lock up the ability to maintain “perpetual software”, we’ve given up to much in the balance of power. That being said, SaaS and Cloud could make this all a moot point as we hand everything over to a independent provider. This is why, it’s paramount that customers and the public sector uphold a consistent Bill of Rights when negotiating w’ vendors. The point of acquisition is the only time customers have any leverage. In this current situation, clients should demand 3PM as a right in all future and new contracts. That will take care of the demand side of the equation – Ray

By: Mike Simons

Mike Simons — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:16:00 +0000

i agree with Denis’s comment on the jury thinking behind the award and on you estimate of its impact on SAP;s bottom line.
It will be good for the management to be shot of this case (assuming they don’t devote endless hours to an appeal).
However, I fear it will havea significant impact on the development of third party support – something you’ve championed.
Whatever the letter of the ruling, CIOs are goign to retreat from third party support and the enterprise software vendors are going to use the court decision to spread FUD about alternatives to their own, over priced support offerings. I think Dave Bradshaw from IDC got it right on CWUK. http://ht.ly/3eUk2

By: BA

BA — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:06:04 +0000

Ray,

very profound analysis of the situation, also on the feeling of SAP employees.

I beg to differ on the impact of third party maintenance:

As long as there is not clear ruling, people will now always assume, that third party maintenance is connected to ip theft. At least all sales pitches will now always include questions around ip protection and what happens if Oracle would sue the provider.

SAP can cope with the financial impact – it hurts, but it´s possible. All other providers will go out of business.

As long as there is no final verdict and agreement, on how third party maintenance can be provided by not being sued, I see huge obstacles for companies like Rimini Street.

Just my three cents

By: R "Ray" Wang

R "Ray" Wang — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:16:44 +0000

Lawrence – I understand how you feel. You don’t want to know that your company or the company you do business with has broken the law. I think in this case, SAP has a new management team that understands what it needs to make amends and isn’t shy about achieving this goal. I’d give them 6 to 12 months and then reassess. I agree that existing SAP staff feel the dismay. The culture of the firm has to shift. Management needs to pay more attention to the data from the field and employees. What do others think? – Ray

By: Lawrence

Lawrence — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:07:49 +0000

I beg to differ .. I believe this incident will have profound impact on the future of SAP .

I believe in future SAP will become more secretive , elusive and evasive in the execution of their plans ..

SAP will become more timid…shy away from the public and press.

Even every SAP staff feels dismay ..

I am a SAP user and I am sleeping with a thief and ironically SAP advocates SAP GRC..